recruiting results discussion thread

[gtmoBlue]

ultimately - this is all Mac's fault

wtf is he thinking?

right now his hit rate is .500 on sons that become all americans

if he and the mrs had gone and had about 10 more - we probably could have expected at least 2-3 more superstars

There is still time for IZ to make All-American, he has 3 more years to play, it is not too late .

[Duke1Agn]

ultimately - this is all Mac's fault

wtf is he thinking?

right now his hit rate is .500 on sons that become all americans

if he and the mrs had gone and had about 10 more - we probably could have expected at least 2-3 more superstars

There is still time for IZ to make All-American, he has 3 more years to play, it is not too late .

Understand you're probably being sarcastic, but according to Piv, Zierden looked great at today's team workout.

[R to the OB]

Does everyone here know why we won in The Valley? Talent. We had more talent (and we used it well, too, but that's another issue entirely) than Bradley, Drake, Wichita, Illinois St., etc. That's why I am concerned. We need top level talent to compete. That's why Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova are successful year in and year out. The staff needs to identify and bring in that talent to continue to win. Plain and simple.
If our staff can't do it and we can't win, well, they have to be held accountable. And no, I'm not saying that Mac and company needs to be fired on the spot or at the end of the year if we end up under-performing, so don't get all defensive.
Despite my comments I am still optimistic about where this program is going, but I also realize that a winning program requires players who are able to win.

Dude. Step back from the ledge. You honestly just brought up firing Coach Mac in a post? Whether you were being facetious or not doesn't even matter in this case. That's absurd. I'm glad you're still optimistic though. Sure seems like it.

I'm not anywhere close to the ledge. I'm just looking at like a realist. And yes, I did bring it up. And yes, I was being serious. Apparently you didn't read this

And no, I'm not saying that Mac and company needs to be fired on the spot or at the end of the year if we end up under-performing, so don't get all defensive.

All I'm going to say is that if we're here in three years and the Jays have finished somewhere from 6-10th in the Big East each of those years and failed to make the NCAA Tournament, you can't tell me that you wouldn't want to make changes, too.
That's all the more I'm going to say about this.

[CreighTony]

I'm tired of all the whiners/doomsayers on here. Am I wrong, but didn't just about every team we played in the Big East last year have better recruits than the Jays had? It sure has done St. Johns a lot of good. Sometimes, quite often actually, a better TEAM will beat better recruits (ala N Iowa/Kansas in the NCAAs). The Jays will continue to get good, quality players and mold them into very good teams. Take a few deep breaths, please.

[anotherjayfan]

I'm tired of all the whiners/doomsayers on here. Am I wrong, but didn't just about every team we played in the Big East last year have better recruits than the Jays had? It sure has done St. Johns a lot of good. Sometimes, quite often actually, a better TEAM will beat better recruits (ala N Iowa/Kansas in the NCAAs). The Jays will continue to get good, quality players and mold them into very good teams. Take a few deep breaths, please.

Mostly agree with you CreighTony, but I firmly believe there's a ceiling (and we're getting close to it) that you can only go past if you recruit better athletes.

I'm glad that the coaches are striving to get those athletes now, but believe it may take a few years to turn the kids who saw Dougie this year (and in the NBA), see CU on TV, and get the coaches in their living rooms before they turn into upperclassmen with CU on their radar. We've got to all be patient, the conference switch is a long term, not short term payoff.

[LJay]

Glad I stayed away today. Some of you disgust me.

Creighton has a Top 150 forward and Top 100 guard in the 2014 class, two all-conference transfers sitting out this year who BCS schools wanted one of whom was a Top 100 high schooler, a senior who started at Cal who WALKED ON instead of going to a BCS school, a Top 50 center in 2015 and a 2015 guard who I predict will end up in the Rivals 150 once this season is done.

Get a grip.

[westojay]

Well said LJay. The sky is falling believers need to realize we have been in the Big East for a 2nd recruiting cycle now. In that timeframe we have gotten 4 players out of HS in which 3 of them are/were ranked in top 100/150. The 4th just committed and there is talk that he may be ranked after the season is over. Not to mention the 3 transfers we have gotten. We are going to win some recruiting battles and we are gonna lose some. But that happens to every major program. Even Duke has lost battles to MSU.
As some of pointed out before, the landscape of college basketball has changed. With the rate of transfers, a team can add 1-2 that could be the difference maker. Look at Iowa State for example. Heck, they barely even recruit HS players anymore. Our coaches have a good eye for talent and are good at player development. The latter is as important as having a blue chipper. This staff will not settle for getting mediocre talent. They will search tooth and nail, look outside the box, etc to bring talent in.

[HandDownManDown]

The funny thing about all this gloom is this: we've had several teams over the last fifteen years that would have finished well this past season. Walker/Sears, Korver/House, and Funk/Tolliver all would have been top 3; Providence and X barely got in but those weren't even bubble teams, and Booker's POY season was on par with PC/X performancewise. And our worst teams, like the Brody/Grimey year where Mathies was forced to play point, or Dougs freshman year? We were at least as good as Seton Hall was this season. All done with Valley recruiting - we now have signed 7 guys we could barely approach for conversation in past years.

So saying we could finish 6-10 for a few years is Chicken Little nonsense. We've been markedly better than that for a generation, with far less to work with.

[Bluejay Bilas]

I think the "gloom" is being projected on posts as much as it's being actually expressed by posters. Bar a couple of posts, most everyone's been reasonable and patient, IMO.

I hear you guys about what we've done with unheralded guys (kind of think last year minus Doug we would have basically been Butler, though). I do strongly disagree that the Woodfox team would have been anything other than a play-in team in last year's pretty weak Big East. That was not a particularly good team. However, if the Big East is frequently as mediocre as it was last year, our current recruiting results should be sufficient for staying away from the cellar (still probably not good enough to reasonably be expected to regularly contend for a top 3 finish). My wish as a fan is to frequently be a top 25 team and sometimes be close to Villanova's current level. I don't expect that to happen overnight, but truly believe the recruiting needs to keep improving in order to get there (note that I say "keep", because I well acknowledge the progress we've seen since we left the MVC). The staff surely shares these thoughts, or would not bother spending so much effort on guys like McQuaid and Clarke at the possible expense of watching lesser targets commit elsewhere before we have the chance to refocus after bad news like the McQuaid announcement.

[Chicagojayfan]

Glad I stayed away today. Some of you disgust me.

Creighton has a Top 150 forward and Top 100 guard in the 2014 class, two all-conference transfers sitting out this year who BCS schools wanted one of whom was a Top 100 high schooler, a senior who started at Cal who WALKED ON instead of going to a BCS school, a Top 50 center in 2015 and a 2015 guard who I predict will end up in the Rivals 150 once this season is done.

Get a grip.

Great comments LJay (and by HandDown and WestoJay as well).

We have a quality roster and considering the two transfers for 2015/16, we have a loaded roster, IMO. Losing a kid whose father loved MSU (and whose father's friend has floor tics to MSU) sucks, but it's the kind of loss that happens.

Good programs recruit ALL the time and our coaches recruit ALL the time. How does anyone think we turned up Harrell last year, hung in there to land Gilmore? How does anyone think we pulled Watson and Huff into the program? How did we find Patton? How did we find and land Watson? EVERY ONE of those players is a top 150 or better player.. in fact, Huff wasn't listed that way, but his playing time and the people lined up to get him as a transfer make it clear he was a top 150 guy.. and better because he's already proved it on the court in D1 basketball.

And even beyond the last couple of years we have talent:

Chatman - probably the best player on the team, Offers from Wichita State, Colorado,
Hanson - big strong and athletic post player, played in BE as a true Frosh - Zaga, Arizona State, Mizzou, Nebraska offers
Groselle - 7 footer, offers from Colorado, Iowa, Northwestern
Hegner - stretch 4 with height to mix it up inside, offers from Iowa State, Marquette, Northwestern, Dayton,
Brooks - JUCO star, not a ton of offers, but does anyone want to argue that he doesn't have BE athleticism and ability?
Milliken - we haven't seen him, but reviews have been great. TCU offer and a reliable scorer that we found
Isaiah Zierden - Only a George Mason offer that was of note, but he came out of his RS year with a ton of good weight and strength and ready to play. Was really turning it on when he got hurt. Already receiving positive reviews in practice coming off of the injury... one of the smartest players out there and a guy who has the potential to have great, great range.

This is part of why we are so selective this year.. we have a very good roster already and don't need to reach for anyone.