2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby ictjay » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Outlaw_Wales wrote:
Chicagojayfan wrote:
go_jays wrote:Well, I think Hegner is a very good defender at the 4 but not nearly as good at the 5. Saying he is the best post defender we have doesn't really say much. So, while I can't disagree with you at the moment... I'm really, really, really (fingers legs, arms and toes crossed) hoping that can't be said by the time the season begins.

As a matter fact, I think it makes a huge difference in how successful our season will be as to whether or not Martin can step up his defense and become "the man" there.


Martin's almost always played the 5, so the best case is if he can turn it up and play big minutes. He's by far our best rebounder and will clean up the boards nicely. It's just the other things he needs to worry about.

Don't underrate Hegner at the 5 on defense. He will be overmatched by some really big guys, but even last year Mac often had him play the D on the opposing 5 and let Patton play the weakside (e.g., as with Delgado)


That was WAY more a result of Patton's defensive problems than Hegner's defensive abilities. Toby is a stretch 4 kind of player. He's not really a post player on either side of the ball -- and if we are seeing him play a lot of 5 next year, it's a bad sign. That's not a knock at all on Toby, but a reality that if we're relying on a guy who is not a post player as our best post defender then we've got problems.


Bingo, spot on. End of discussion. Thanks Outlaw.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby T-bone » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:35 pm

Toby played under the basket in high school. He was told to only play outside when he got to Creighton originally.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby Angry Dan » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Toby can go to his left and

Go to his right

He's amphibious ! :)
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby JacobPadilla » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:40 am

Toby is the biggest player on the roster other than Suarez in terms of height and weight. Why is it such a bad thing for him to guard opposing 5s? He's not Echenique inside but he's fine. And based on his injury problems, I don't know when he'll regain full mobility anyway if we want him out guarding in space. On the other end, he's an even bigger mismatch on the perimeter for centers if we're trying to space the floor for Tazz and Marcus.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby go_jays » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:14 pm

Height and weight alone don't make for a strong post player. Strength, knowing how to leverage that height and weight against the opposing player, and willingness to bang are way more important.

Yes, he is a problem for some opposing centers to defend. But, IMO, that's situational and tactical... and effective against certain opponents and systems of play.

I'll say it again, if we have Hegner playing at the 5 for extended periods of time, we won't be as effective as if he were playing at the 4... given he comes back at least as healthy as he was at the beginning of last year. If not, then that's an entirely different can of worms. IMO, at least it appears to me, that he can have a greater impact on the game at the 4 than he can at the 5. IOW... the team is stronger with him at the 4 than at the 5.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby Chicagojayfan » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:26 pm

JacobPadilla wrote:Toby is the biggest player on the roster other than Suarez in terms of height and weight. Why is it such a bad thing for him to guard opposing 5s? He's not Echenique inside but he's fine. And based on his injury problems, I don't know when he'll regain full mobility anyway if we want him out guarding in space. On the other end, he's an even bigger mismatch on the perimeter for centers if we're trying to space the floor for Tazz and Marcus.


This is correct. At the 4, Toby will have smaller, quicker players who are more able to cover him on the perimeter, giving him less time to get his shot off.

In the post on defense, he's a good defender. Funny that people now say that "of course, he played the post players, Patton was terrible" .. when at the time everyone wondered why Hegner was playing. He's a very solid player inside (and based on history, Mac's teams have generally done well inside defensively and even had schemes to help Wragge out against most players). It's not like Mac doesn't know how people should play inside and he goes to Hegner a lot for those jobs.

There are good reasons to play him at the 4, but that doesn't mean he's a horrible choice to play the 5 at all.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby BostonBlueJay » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:18 pm

go_jays wrote:Saurez may have experience, but not in Mac's system. While I am sure that Suarez will see plenty of time this year, I would be surprised if it were ahead of Martin... who HAS been in Mac's system... even though he doesn't have a lot of PT. But, who knows for sure. I guess I'm hoping that Martin develops more than playing behind a player that has just come into the system.
.


Your guess is as good as mine and you do make a valid point (re: "experience, but not in Mac's system"), but a grad transfer coming and get significant playing time without any Mac system experience isn't completely unheard of. Rick Kreklow was such a guy... Now, I KNOW Kreklow came from a D-I school and had experience vs significantly better opposition than Manny, but that doesn't mean Manny can't come good and show it doesn't matter and he still has what it takes to produce at a high level.
Last edited by BostonBlueJay on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby gtmoBlue » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:07 pm

Just for clarity's sake are you speaking "many" vs a few or "Many" as in Manny vs Kreklow?
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby BostonBlueJay » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:32 pm

gtmoBlue wrote:Just for clarity's sake are you speaking "many" vs a few or "Many" as in Manny vs Kreklow?


Manny. ...wasn't pay attention. Sorry for the typo
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Re: 2017 C Manny Suarez (Grad Transfer Commit)

Postby LJay » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:23 pm

I think we can unsticky kids who will be playing a game as a Jay in a few weeks.
77 - 62
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