Xavier Game Thread

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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby Jet915 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:30 pm

Yeah, day after and I'm still pissed. The outcome of this game is the difference between a 5 seed and now the bubble....
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby go_jays » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:35 pm

Realhoops wrote:
go_jays wrote:The biggest problem I have with Burrough's call is that he made it from, probably, the worst position on the court relative to the positioning of the other two officials.

While he could see that Harrell was moving his feet slightly during the play, he couldn't see Goodin plant his forearm into Hegner's chest. Which, IMO was the reason there was any real contact on the play... and not from Harrell, From the replays,I couldn't tell for certain whether Harrell actually made any contact with Goodin. But it was very clear that Goodin made contact with Hegner.

From Burrough's vantage point, he couldn't see that. Bottom line... the 2 other officials had much better positioning and vantage points... and neither one of them looked to be calling anything. Seems to me that Burrough was prone to making some kind of call... in spite of the fact that he had poor line of sight on that play.


This is my biggest problem with college officiating. The guy farthest from the play, most out of position, etc. constantly running in to make a call that one or two others in much better position did not make. That was also true on the two out of bounds possession overrules during the game. I can live with a bad call. It happens; they are human. But when you aren’t in position, don’t come running in to call what you think must have happened but could not possibly have actually seen.


Ditto... drives me nuts. Some guys... instead of understanding their roles as facilitators of the game, somehow believe they need to put their stamp on the game... only a few... but a few is a few to many. And yes, they are human and I praise every one of them for the roles they play because they can take a lot of uncalled-for abuse at times. But there a few that are just too over-zealous about their role. Again, the idea is to facilitate the game... make it easier for the players to play... especially the skilled players. Make it a more beautiful game. Don't muddy it up with excessive numbers of calls. And if you aren't absolutely certain of what you saw, swallow the whistle. JMO
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby cufan10 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Still pissed as well. Hope to never see burroughs at the link again. This has got me thinking we have video review available couldnt they make just this type of situation reviewable to ensure the right call (in this case should have been no call) is made? It seems unfair an easily fixable situation cant be fixed. Also, I never understand how if the other refs have a better view they are usually hesitant to go over and help. The other two should have immediately gone over to burroughs huddled up, discussed their view, and the call should have been waived off as an inadvertent whistle. The other two refs should have realized the right call needs to be made and set burroughs straight.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby wildjays » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:59 pm

Polyfro wrote:Here's the Morning After, with stats, analysis, a whole bunch of your tweets -- A WHOLE BUNCH -- and the Bluejay Beat podcast with Matt D. and Jon Nyatawa.

Still hurts, still sucks.

http://whiteandbluereview.com/morning-a ... ossession/


This was a pretty good picture of how things played out. It will now live in infamy with the other botched end of game calls that the players didn't get to determine the end game, SIU and Miami.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby go_jays » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:17 pm

BTW... as much as I hate to type this... using Bluiett as the screener takes our best defender out of the play. Mack is not one of my favorite coaches... but I got to hand it to him. It was a REALLY well-designed play. I wonder what the outcome would have been had Thomas been in the defending half to begin with...

Damn...
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby CU Final Four » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:30 pm

Cufan10 wrote
This has got me thinking we have video review available couldnt they make just this type of situation reviewable to ensure the right call (in this case should have been no call) is made? It seems unfair an easily fixable situation cant be fixed


That would make college basketball even more like the unwatchable NFL. Let’s stop the game for 5 minutes and have the NY office render its opinion - based on slow mo - on what is mostly a judgment call. It would wreck college basketball.

Yes, it was a poor judgment call at the end against us. But the facts are the refs didn’t take the game from us. We LOST that game and we should have won it.

As a team, we shot only 42% from the field. MF and KT shot 50% and supplied 60% of our total points. The rest of the team only shot 30%. And don’t get me started on Manny. His minutes were very poor and a net negative. We have to go with JE.

If Ronnie makes one more basket, we win. He had at least two just rim out. If Davion hits that layup and then the free throw, we win. Lots of plays like that.

My larger point is that I certainly hope our players and coaches are mature enough to realize the above and not blame the refs for the loss. We just need to play slightly better and we can beat any top 25 team in the country in March. That’s the right takeaway from the X game.

As to Jaybird’s comment above, there are so many bad things about it that I don’t even know where to begin.

1. The refs are graded after every single game by the BE supervisor of refs. Too many low scores and you don’t get hired. You work MVC games.

2. The idea of post-game press conferences by the refs is completely absurd. Yeah, let’s rehash and second guess the entire game. What good does that do? That just generates more grist for the social media mill. Completely counterproductive.

3. Frankly, your obsession with that one ref is unhealthy. While it doesn’t approach the tortious and insane behavior of Kentucky fans against Omaha ref John Higgins, it is in the same ballpark. Let’s turn down the outrage meter. The referees set their schedules at the beginning of the season. I suspect that one or both of those games had their times changed for TV reasons.

I suspect that some here are doctors. True professionals. Guys and gals who get called into the hospital late at night or early in the morning to deliver a baby or perform surgery. And, yes, they then oftentimes work a full day. A ref, on the other hand, only has a two hour work day until the next game. My point is that calling a college basketball game is not exactly like performing surgery for hours in the middle of the night. The refs aren’t overworked.

4. I have never heard of this IRS and travel expenses “scandal” with the college refs but I suspect it is nothing.

5. Grow up and stop whining about the refs.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby bluejayfan00 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:40 pm

CU Final Four wrote:Cufan10 wrote
This has got me thinking we have video review available couldnt they make just this type of situation reviewable to ensure the right call (in this case should have been no call) is made? It seems unfair an easily fixable situation cant be fixed


That would make college basketball even more like the unwatchable NFL. Let’s stop the game for 5 minutes and have the NY office render its opinion - based on slow mo - on what is mostly a judgment call. It would wreck college basketball.

Yes, it was a poor judgment call at the end against us. But the facts are the refs didn’t take the game from us. We LOST that game and we should have won it.

As a team, we shot only 42% from the field. MF and KT shot 50% and supplied 60% of our total points. The rest of the team only shot 30%. And don’t get me started on Manny. His minutes were very poor and a net negative. We have to go with JE.

If Ronnie makes one more basket, we win. He had at least two just rim out. If Davion hits that layup and then the free throw, we win. Lots of plays like that.

My larger point is that I certainly hope our players and coaches are mature enough to realize the above and not blame the refs for the loss. We just need to play slightly better and we can beat any top 25 team in the country in March. That’s the right takeaway from the X game.

As to Jaybird’s comment above, there are so many bad things about it that I don’t even know where to begin.

1. The refs are graded after every single game by the BE supervisor of refs. Too many low scores and you don’t get hired. You work MVC games.

2. The idea of post-game press conferences by the refs is completely absurd. Yeah, let’s rehash and second guess the entire game. What good does that do? That just generates more grist for the social media mill. Completely counterproductive.

3. Frankly, your obsession with that one ref is unhealthy. While it doesn’t approach the tortious and insane behavior of Kentucky fans against Omaha ref John Higgins, it is in the same ballpark. Let’s turn down the outrage meter. The referees set their schedules at the beginning of the season. I suspect that one or both of those games had their times changed for TV reasons.

I suspect that some here are doctors. True professionals. Guys and gals who get called into the hospital late at night or early in the morning to deliver a baby or perform surgery. And, yes, they then oftentimes work a full day. A ref, on the other hand, only has a two hour work day until the next game. My point is that calling a college basketball game is not exactly like performing surgery for hours in the middle of the night. The refs aren’t overworked.

4. I have never heard of this IRS and travel expenses “scandal” with the college refs but I suspect it is nothing.

5. Grow up and stop whining about the refs.

Eat shit.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby cu8493 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:49 pm

I don't get why anyone thinks it was such a well designed play by Mack. It was a very basic play. Set your guy up opposite side of ball. Set a simple screen and run him across toward the ball to catch it in stride and head up court unimpeded. It was very poorly defensed, period. If your not going to guard the in bounder, then use two guys to defend the guy coming off the screen so you force him to come toward the baseline to catch the ball. Had we done that, he has to shoot somewhere outside the three point line. The problem with relying on a wall at the basket is a good player is going to force the issue by taking it at the wall and force the referee to either make a call or swallow his whistle. Defend more in the backcourt and you avoid that situation altogether. We may find ourselves in this situation again. I hope we handle it differently next time.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby cufan10 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:19 pm

CU Final Four wrote:Cufan10 wrote
This has got me thinking we have video review available couldnt they make just this type of situation reviewable to ensure the right call (in this case should have been no call) is made? It seems unfair an easily fixable situation cant be fixed


That would make college basketball even more like the unwatchable NFL. Let’s stop the game for 5 minutes and have the NY office render its opinion - based on slow mo - on what is mostly a judgment call. It would wreck college basketball.

Yes, it was a poor judgment call at the end against us. But the facts are the refs didn’t take the game from us. We LOST that game and we should have won it.

As a team, we shot only 42% from the field. MF and KT shot 50% and supplied 60% of our total points. The rest of the team only shot 30%. And don’t get me started on Manny. His minutes were very poor and a net negative. We have to go with JE.

If Ronnie makes one more basket, we win. He had at least two just rim out. If Davion hits that layup and then the free throw, we win. Lots of plays like that.

My larger point is that I certainly hope our players and coaches are mature enough to realize the above and not blame the refs for the loss. We just need to play slightly better and we can beat any top 25 team in the country in March. That’s the right takeaway from the X game.

As to Jaybird’s comment above, there are so many bad things about it that I don’t even know where to begin.

1. The refs are graded after every single game by the BE supervisor of refs. Too many low scores and you don’t get hired. You work MVC games.

2. The idea of post-game press conferences by the refs is completely absurd. Yeah, let’s rehash and second guess the entire game. What good does that do? That just generates more grist for the social media mill. Completely counterproductive.

3. Frankly, your obsession with that one ref is unhealthy. While it doesn’t approach the tortious and insane behavior of Kentucky fans against Omaha ref John Higgins, it is in the same ballpark. Let’s turn down the outrage meter. The referees set their schedules at the beginning of the season. I suspect that one or both of those games had their times changed for TV reasons.

I suspect that some here are doctors. True professionals. Guys and gals who get called into the hospital late at night or early in the morning to deliver a baby or perform surgery. And, yes, they then oftentimes work a full day. A ref, on the other hand, only has a two hour work day until the next game. My point is that calling a college basketball game is not exactly like performing surgery for hours in the middle of the night. The refs aren’t overworked.

4. I have never heard of this IRS and travel expenses “scandal” with the college refs but I suspect it is nothing.

5. Grow up and stop whining about the refs.


Firstly, as to my review comment I was only referring to a situation like yesterday which obviously doesn't happen every game. I would not want plays reviewed all time that is not feasible. But for this very limited situation I think 18,000 ish people who like me were also in the arena yesterday, as well as coach Mac and the team, would have all been happy to wait a few minutes for a review if it meant getting the call right and thus the win. To me what "wrecks" college basketball is officiating like yesterday that ruins a great game and decides who wins. At the end of the day I just want consistent and fair officiating which we did not have yesterday or the depaul game for that matter.
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Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby go_jays » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Elegantly basic... Usually the best kind of play. And yes, it was poorly defended because it was sound and simple to execute... Again, the best kind of play.

So, what do you do with Thomas in this situation? Put him on Bluiett (which they did) or put him in the backcourt where he would have been involved in the play. The most important thing when attacking is to stress and conflict defenses. They did that... and did it well. Of course, the answer is make them inbound the ball as close to the baseline as possible... AND with their back to their basket. Apparently that is easier said than done. And as far as doubling... who do you double... Goodin or Bluiett?

There is an old saying... "Last man with the chalk wins"... assuming everything is executed to perfection. And the best plays are always the ones that get executed to perfection.

Not only did WE get stressed, but so did one of the officials. Like I said earlier, the whole point to that play is to draw a foul, either in the open court with a reach-in or get a blocking call at the rim, or get a layup. Elegantly simple... and they executed to a tee.
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