Xavier Game Thread

Talk about YOUR Creighton Bluejays!

Return to Men's Hoops

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby mredle » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:09 pm

If, If, if... If all the ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. And are people really surprised we got dominated inside? Toby's is boxing out an opponents big so that Martin and others can pull down a defensive board, reduce the opponents offensive rebounding edge and ignite offense in the other direction. I don't think Toby is even in our top five rebounders. I know he doesn't have half the number of rebounds Martin has for the season. My guess is that he doesn't have as many rebounds on the season as Ronnie, Khyri, Marcus or Davion either. That is not to criticize Toby, that is just not his strength and just not his role. The point is that people act as though they are surprised we have difficulty against legitimate bigs. Manny is a similar big, any rebound he gets is the result of either the angle of the miss or his position against the opponent. That is why the coaches and JE took the extreme action of pulling his redshirt. He was redshirted for a reason. Specifically he was redshirted so that Toby could get a breather and hopefully avoid aggravating his aching ankles. The coaches new that JE wouldn't be able to hold off his opposing big. He was redshirted to give him a chance to concentrate on putting on size and building strength. But when Martin went down they needed to give Toby rest and Martin hadn't demonstrated he was up to that job. Jacob has had some good games pulling down rebounds, altering shots and showing promise as a passer. I think Jacob can continue to provide Toby with some rest during games. I don't know if Mac has considered trying what they did last year with Justin and to a lesser degree with Martin. Namely play Jacob some WITH Toby, with Manny and by himself. Last year they were able to avoid the same problem with Justin. Justin would play with Toby and Zach. Justin would play defense against the smaller 4 and let Toby or Zach box out the 5 and Justin could play free safety and defend the rim. I'm not sure is Jacob's conditioning is there yet or maybe Mac has determined that JE isn't ready for that type of assignment yet. What I do know is that the last few games have demonstrated how narrow our margin of success is against the Big East bigs by relying on MF, KT and the team mate du jour to outscore the opposition. The second half of Xavier game taught the coaching staff at least one thing, we HAVE to provide help inside. We did that in the second half played their bigs better. We might have been tired at the end but Xavier was exhausted most of the second half. That and our inside help defense explained their difficulty in scoring in the second half. Just my opinion.
Last edited by mredle on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
mredle
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:06 pm

 

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby cu8493 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:43 am

So, what do you do with Thomas in this situation? Put him on Bluiett (which they did) or put him in the backcourt where he would have been involved in the play. The most important thing when attacking is to stress and conflict defenses. They did that... and did it well. Of course, the answer is make them inbound the ball as close to the baseline as possible... AND with their back to their basket. Apparently that is easier said than done. And as far as doubling... who do you double... Goodin or Bluiett?


What I am saying is either (a) stick a guy on the inbounder so he doesn't get a clear look and easy chest pass straight to Goodin (or whoever comes to receive it) and play zone with Mintz and Thomas on their two guys set up in the back court - one guy takes the guy who goes left and the other takes the guy who goes right or sets the pick. Doesn't matter who Thomas ends up on or Mintz. Just don't give them an easy inbound pass, or (b) if you aren't going to put a guy on the inbouder, then put three guys on their two in the back court - again one takes the left and the other takes the right with your third guy over playing just behind them but to the side of the court the passer is on to again make the entry pass harder. In either event. As it played out, once he got headed up court Marcus should have positioned to force Gooden to the side line. Run with him a little bit to force him to come at the hoop from a wider angle. Then it takes an extra split second to get to the basket and Ronnie and Toby can be more square to where his is coming from. Frankly, I would switch Foster and Thomas in that situation, because Foster is faster and could sprint with Bluiett or Goodin, and Thomas is much better at defending with the guy coming at him - and would have the better chance of poking the ball away or making him change direction. I know its hard to defend that when you can't foul, but there were things we could have been done to slow him up just enough to force him to pull up from 10 feet or further. We didn't do any of those things. Maybe he still makes it, maybe he doesn't if he has to shoot a jump shot.

Yes it was simple and yes they ran it perfectly, but we did nothing to disrupt it. We made it look good. I hope we learned from this for the next time it comes down to that. On to the next one. I said 13-5 conference record, so I guess we are about to go on a 5 game winning streak to finish the season.
cu8493
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby 3ontheway » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:58 am

Guard the inbound man, try to get the inbound guy to make a tough, re directed pass to a guy that is not already running upcourt with a head of steam.

Hindsight is 20/20 and easy to say this stuff after, but not sure why we gave X a timeout, or had a better defender (Ballock) on the bench....

The team battled their ass off, which is all you can really ask.
3ontheway
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:56 am

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby CreighTony » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:04 am

What gets me is that the play to end the first half looked the same at the hoop as the play to end the game. The whistles were swallowed on our drive to end the first half, but not on their play with .3 seconds left in the game. Probably more contact on the first half ending play.
Let's just regroup and get Marquette this weekend.
CreighTony
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:34 pm

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby go_jays » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 am

cu8493 wrote:
So, what do you do with Thomas in this situation? Put him on Bluiett (which they did) or put him in the backcourt where he would have been involved in the play. The most important thing when attacking is to stress and conflict defenses. They did that... and did it well. Of course, the answer is make them inbound the ball as close to the baseline as possible... AND with their back to their basket. Apparently that is easier said than done. And as far as doubling... who do you double... Goodin or Bluiett?


What I am saying is either (a) stick a guy on the inbounder so he doesn't get a clear look and easy chest pass straight to Goodin (or whoever comes to receive it) and play zone with Mintz and Thomas on their two guys set up in the back court - one guy takes the guy who goes left and the other takes the guy who goes right or sets the pick. Doesn't matter who Thomas ends up on or Mintz. Just don't give them an easy inbound pass, or (b) if you aren't going to put a guy on the inbouder, then put three guys on their two in the back court - again one takes the left and the other takes the right with your third guy over playing just behind them but to the side of the court the passer is on to again make the entry pass harder. In either event. As it played out, once he got headed up court Marcus should have positioned to force Gooden to the side line. Run with him a little bit to force him to come at the hoop from a wider angle. Then it takes an extra split second to get to the basket and Ronnie and Toby can be more square to where his is coming from. Frankly, I would switch Foster and Thomas in that situation, because Foster is faster and could sprint with Bluiett or Goodin, and Thomas is much better at defending with the guy coming at him - and would have the better chance of poking the ball away or making him change direction. I know its hard to defend that when you can't foul, but there were things we could have been done to slow him up just enough to force him to pull up from 10 feet or further. We didn't do any of those things. Maybe he still makes it, maybe he doesn't if he has to shoot a jump shot.

Yes it was simple and yes they ran it perfectly, but we did nothing to disrupt it. We made it look good. I hope we learned from this for the next time it comes down to that. On to the next one. I said 13-5 conference record, so I guess we are about to go on a 5 game winning streak to finish the season.


I agree with a lot of what you are saying here... I actually suggested some of it in previous posts... i.e. getting sideways on and funneling Goodin to the sideline...

IMO, the set up wasn't necessarily poor on our part. It was Mintz's decision to go over the top of the screen that killed us. Now, I have no idea what his instructions were from Mac/the Staff... Like I said earlier, I can't imagine he was instructed to go for a take away or even deny the inbound. My guess was to simply keep Goodin in front of him, "delay" him... which he obviously didn't do. And IMO, you've GOT to put Thomas on Bluiett, no matter what else you do. Can you imagine Thomas not on Bluiett and he does what Goodin did? Oh my... off with Mac's head!

There are a few guys on this team that defense comes naturally to... there are several that do not "get it", unfortunately. There's a knack to knowing how to defend... when to go for the take away, when to deny the pass, when to sag and "help" etc. Thomas is the obvious model defender. He really has that "knack"... evident by his steals. He can actually "set up" opposing players by baiting, funneling, closing down at the proper angles... Not many people understand or get that.

Thanks for the civil discussion.
go_jays
 
Posts: 1176
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby Jaynut » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 am

My recollection was in the post game on the radio, Mac mentioned 2 problems. Mintz going over the screen, and somebody (Thomas or Foster?) slipping and loosing coverage as a result. He said they knew the play they were going to run, and had it set up to defend, subject to those two items, and the ref's call. Hegner ultimately blocked the shot.
Jaynut
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:25 am

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby blueblood » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:25 am

He said Khryi slipped
“Drinking beer doesn't make you fat, It makes you lean....
Against bars, tables, chairs, and poles.”
User avatar
blueblood
 
Posts: 2572
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:36 am

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby go_jays » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware what Mac said... I usually don't listen to post-game. But it was pretty obvious that wasn't a good decision on his part.
go_jays
 
Posts: 1176
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby Dundee Hipster » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:30 pm

Anybody else hate it when coaches/athletes bring their children in post-game press conferences? This sounds very old man-ish and stupid, but I feel like it really is designed to alleviate tough questioning. Chris Mack bringing his daughter into the post-game presser was a joke.
User avatar
Dundee Hipster
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:42 pm
Location: Omaha

Re: Xavier Game Thread

Postby D Jay Fan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:54 pm

My first thought during the timeout was to put Jacob on the baseline. Long arms flapping away. Or even Ballock, as he has a motor to guard the pass. Remember we had just made free throws. So Xavier had the baseline to run. The one worry there is that someone would set a pick at the baseline and they would get 2 foul shots for a defensive charge. Not calling a timeout gives them the Watson play. Xavier just gives the ball to the very fast point guard Goodin (like they did), but now you don't have the defense set and ready for the play the coaches knew was coming. We have our own normal late play where the ball gets thrown over the top to the mid court line or the offensive top of the key. The big then passes it to the open wing who finishes the play. I think Doug made one of those his Senior year.
It came down to should the winner be the team who was given the bad call or the team that was given the awful call. The second ref was making up for the first ref. He probably got a couple ear fulls during the 2 timeouts.
Game was lost but not won either in the last 6 minutes. Neither team played well down the stretch. Macura was the difference. He loves to stop suddenly or grab a hand from behind (like he did to Ballock) so that he can get a foul called. Usually for free throws. He has that fully stretch arm layup that he did 3 or 4 times. And he had too many rebound put backs.
What does the J.P. stand for. He should be taunted with that name. Or is it like Henry Cho says in his comedy standup. It might be his whole name J.only P.only. or Jonly Ponly
D Jay Fan
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:35 am

PreviousNext

Return to Men's Hoops

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Realhoops and 17 guests