Trey Alexander

[go_jays]

I don''t have specific numbers on this... but based on what I've been noticing lately... The only time Trey assumes the PG role (for the most part) Is when Ashworth is on the bench. If they are in the game together, Ashworth is bringing the ball up, forcing/leading the transition and initiating the half-court offense. Again, FOR THE MOST PART.

Said earlier when we were struggling (the sequence you mention here) I thought that they really didn't have a solid understanding of how they were supposed to/needed to mesh. Like they were both playing the PG and the 2 position at the same time. The roles just hadn't been figured out enough yet.

So having said that, I think they've abandoned the "Trey Experiment", for the most part. And things seem to flow much better now.

[Ethanfor3]

The reality is that Trey is an excellent 2 guard, but not quite quick enough to be a full time PG.

No shame in that, but he’s a capable creator if that’s not his full time job

We’re fortunate to have him and ashworth finding his footing is a great thing for this team and will ultimately help Trey

[go_jays]

The reality is that Trey is an excellent 2 guard, but not quite quick enough to be a full time PG.

No shame in that, but he’s a capable creator if that’s not his full time job

We’re fortunate to have him and ashworth finding his footing is a great thing for this team and will ultimately help Trey

Of course. That is the reason he came back this season... to have more time on the ball and show them he could play PG at the next level. And it hasn't worked out well. Not sure if you were saying that this season has worked out well for Trey or not. But it doesn't appear to have. Because he's not looking like an NBA PG... not even close.

But the fact is... the effort to give him more time playing on the ball having not worked out so well, has actually worked about better for the team. We really didn't need him to play PG very much, only when Ashworth was out of the game... just like they are doing now. We really just needed him to be a solid shot hunter with a 3 level game and be a solid perimeter defender.... like he is now.

Also, someone posted a few weeks ago that Ashworth wasn't really a PG. Man, I have no idea where that person got that. To me, Ashworth looked like a hell of a PG at Utah St in his highlights. Smart, plenty quick if not physically imposing (one of our best perimeter defenders now) and great vision.

[JacobPadilla]

I think you're getting too hung up on PG vs. SG. Basketball is a free-flowing game and the ball moves a lot in Creighton's offense. The truth is Trey runs P&R more than any other play type (almost a third of his possessions), while spot-up and P&R are tied for Ashworth's at just over a quarter of his possessions. Trey is also leading the team in assists (which is still the case in conference-play only). Whichever of the two is in better position to take the outlet pass typically does and either pushes it in transition or gets them into their halfcourt set if there's nothing there on the break.

I think what we've seen is Ashworth get more confident and comfortable in his role and therefore be more impactful when he has the ball, which puts less pressure on Trey to do it all himself. But I'd bet Trey still has the ball more than anybody else, whether he initiates the offense or gets the ball in the flow later in the possession.

[go_jays]

I think you're getting too hung up on PG vs. SG. Basketball is a free-flowing game and the ball moves a lot in Creighton's offense. The truth is Trey runs P&R more than any other play type (almost a third of his possessions), while spot-up and P&R are tied for Ashworth's at just over a quarter of his possessions. Trey is also leading the team in assists (which is still the case in conference-play only). Whichever of the two is in better position to take the outlet pass typically does and either pushes it in transition or gets them into their halfcourt set if there's nothing there on the break.

I think what we've seen is Ashworth get more confident and comfortable in his role and therefore be more impactful when he has the ball, which puts less pressure on Trey to do it all himself. But I'd bet Trey still has the ball more than anybody else, whether he initiates the offense or gets the ball in the flow later in the possession.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree here some. Playing Point... getting the ball up court with varying degrees of pressure, setting up and getting the offense into motion, making sure everyone is involved. figuring out how to initiate the "attack" (how are we gonna beat this defense they are playing at the moment, based on who's in the game for both us and them). Then finding that player(s). When things stall, how do we reset... basically being the coach on the floor... is different than playing SG... not worrying about bringing the ball up the court, but thinking about how am I gonna attack the guy defending me and what kind of help is he gonna get (if any) when I get the ball in my hands. Finding "my spot" on the floor relative to where everyone else is, can I feint my defender and/or bait him, getting into a position that I can receive the ball and then executing/finishing off whatever my plan is/was.

One is being the captain of a platoon, the other is being a part of a collection and how I can fit in with them. One is an orchestrator, the other is a player. That's why symphonies have conductors and players. The conductor makes sure everyone is doing what they need to be doing... the other performs his "part"... the difference between being the one who is hunting his shot (SG) and one who is trying to the find the one who is hunting his shot and has found it.

It's really two different mindsets/mentalities. Are you focusing on looking at the forest or at the individual trees. As in... "some people can' see the forest for the trees".

Lastly, I'm not saying that Trey can't do a good job of playing PG. He showed that he could 2 years ago. It's that it's pretty difficult to switch between roles on the fly, like he was asked to do this year, because of the difference in mentalities.

And yeah, I'm gonna mention my years of coaching here and the number of times that I've seen players struggle when they've been given various responsibilities, and then asked them to switch between them in the course of a game. Some can do it and do do it... others struggle with it. I think Trey really struggled with his shot selection (his "shot hunting") early on because of the need to be playing PG as well... in order to demonstrate that he could play Point at the next level.

[JacobPadilla]

I think you're getting too hung up on PG vs. SG. Basketball is a free-flowing game and the ball moves a lot in Creighton's offense. The truth is Trey runs P&R more than any other play type (almost a third of his possessions), while spot-up and P&R are tied for Ashworth's at just over a quarter of his possessions. Trey is also leading the team in assists (which is still the case in conference-play only). Whichever of the two is in better position to take the outlet pass typically does and either pushes it in transition or gets them into their halfcourt set if there's nothing there on the break.

I think what we've seen is Ashworth get more confident and comfortable in his role and therefore be more impactful when he has the ball, which puts less pressure on Trey to do it all himself. But I'd bet Trey still has the ball more than anybody else, whether he initiates the offense or gets the ball in the flow later in the possession.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree here some. Playing Point... getting the ball up court with varying degrees of pressure, setting up and getting the offense into motion, making sure everyone is involved. figuring out how to initiate the "attack" (how are we gonna beat this defense they are playing at the moment, based on who's in the game for both us and them). Then finding that player(s). When things stall, how do we reset... basically being the coach on the floor... is different than playing SG... not worrying about bringing the ball up the court, but thinking about how am I gonna attack the guy defending me and what kind of help is he gonna get (if any) when I get the ball in my hands. Finding "my spot" on the floor relative to where everyone else is, can I feint my defender and/or bait him, getting into a position that I can receive the ball and then executing/finishing off whatever my plan is/was.

One is being the captain of a platoon, the other is being a part of a collection and how I can fit in with them. One is an orchestrator, the other is a player. That's why symphonies have conductors and players. The conductor makes sure everyone is doing what they need to be doing... the other performs his "part"... the difference between being the one who is hunting his shot (SG) and one who is trying to the find the one who is hunting his shot and has found it.

It's really two different mindsets/mentalities. Are you focusing on looking at the forest or at the individual trees. As in... "some people can' see the forest for the trees".

Lastly, I'm not saying that Trey can't do a good job of playing PG. He showed that he could 2 years ago. It's that it's pretty difficult to switch between roles on the fly, like he was asked to do this year, because of the difference in mentalities.

And yeah, I'm gonna mention my years of coaching here and the number of times that I've seen players struggle when they've been given various responsibilities, and then asked them to switch between them in the course of a game. Some can do it and do do it... others struggle with it. I think Trey really struggled with his shot selection (his "shot hunting") early on because of the need to be playing PG as well... in order to demonstrate that he could play Point at the next level.

My point is I think you're oversimplifying it by making it a black and white thing. Trey still does all of those things you described for this team, and so does Ashworth; there's a lot of overlap because that's what basketball is. Trey's recent play isn't the result of him just not playing point guard any more. He still runs pick-and-rolls, he still sets up others within CU's halfcourt sets, he still pushes it up the floor in transition. Ashworth settling in has been huge for lightening the load on Trey's shoulders, and I'm sure that's helped him out a great deal. I also think he's just flat-out playing better running the same stuff he was running earlier in the year. Trey's a true combo-guard, and that's how Creighton's using him.

[go_jays]

Actually, I'm not making it a black and white thing. I'm actually making it a very gray thing. There are a ton of nuances to the sport of basketball... or any sport based on "territory" for that matter. Because those kinds of sports are VERY mental. And the higher the level of the play in the game, the more mental the games become. Why? because, for the most part, the higher the level of play, the chances are that your opponent it just as big, just as fast, just as strong and just as skilled as you are. So the difference is in your head.

And I'm pointing out that the difference between playing Point and playing Shooting Guard is very nuanced and takes 2 different kinds of mental approaches to playing the positions.

You're focusing on skill and stats parts. Which is important also. But how you approach the game from a mental standpoint is absolutely necessary. And I'm not talking about Sports Psychology either. I'm talking about the types of decisions players make and the sheer number of them that they do make during the course of a game... like somewhere in the thousands?

Thanks for the sane discussion. Always appreciate your insight, Jacob.

[Chicagojayfan]

I think you're getting too hung up on PG vs. SG. Basketball is a free-flowing game and the ball moves a lot in Creighton's offense. The truth is Trey runs P&R more than any other play type (almost a third of his possessions), while spot-up and P&R are tied for Ashworth's at just over a quarter of his possessions. Trey is also leading the team in assists (which is still the case in conference-play only). Whichever of the two is in better position to take the outlet pass typically does and either pushes it in transition or gets them into their halfcourt set if there's nothing there on the break.

I think what we've seen is Ashworth get more confident and comfortable in his role and therefore be more impactful when he has the ball, which puts less pressure on Trey to do it all himself. But I'd bet Trey still has the ball more than anybody else, whether he initiates the offense or gets the ball in the flow later in the possession.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree here some. Playing Point... getting the ball up court with varying degrees of pressure, setting up and getting the offense into motion, making sure everyone is involved. figuring out how to initiate the "attack" (how are we gonna beat this defense they are playing at the moment, based on who's in the game for both us and them). Then finding that player(s). When things stall, how do we reset... basically being the coach on the floor... is different than playing SG... not worrying about bringing the ball up the court, but thinking about how am I gonna attack the guy defending me and what kind of help is he gonna get (if any) when I get the ball in my hands. Finding "my spot" on the floor relative to where everyone else is, can I feint my defender and/or bait him, getting into a position that I can receive the ball and then executing/finishing off whatever my plan is/was.

One is being the captain of a platoon, the other is being a part of a collection and how I can fit in with them. One is an orchestrator, the other is a player. That's why symphonies have conductors and players. The conductor makes sure everyone is doing what they need to be doing... the other performs his "part"... the difference between being the one who is hunting his shot (SG) and one who is trying to the find the one who is hunting his shot and has found it.

It's really two different mindsets/mentalities. Are you focusing on looking at the forest or at the individual trees. As in... "some people can' see the forest for the trees".

Lastly, I'm not saying that Trey can't do a good job of playing PG. He showed that he could 2 years ago. It's that it's pretty difficult to switch between roles on the fly, like he was asked to do this year, because of the difference in mentalities.

And yeah, I'm gonna mention my years of coaching here and the number of times that I've seen players struggle when they've been given various responsibilities, and then asked them to switch between them in the course of a game. Some can do it and do do it... others struggle with it. I think Trey really struggled with his shot selection (his "shot hunting") early on because of the need to be playing PG as well... in order to demonstrate that he could play Point at the next level.

My point is I think you're oversimplifying it by making it a black and white thing. Trey still does all of those things you described for this team, and so does Ashworth; there's a lot of overlap because that's what basketball is. Trey's recent play isn't the result of him just not playing point guard any more. He still runs pick-and-rolls, he still sets up others within CU's halfcourt sets, he still pushes it up the floor in transition. Ashworth settling in has been huge for lightening the load on Trey's shoulders, and I'm sure that's helped him out a great deal. I also think he's just flat-out playing better running the same stuff he was running earlier in the year. Trey's a true combo-guard, and that's how Creighton's using him.

A few times last year and the year before, teams made things tough for Nembhard to run the point by being very physical on top of the key and bumping/checking him to make it difficult for him to get into the sets or advance the ball to where we needed in the half court (in particular Iowa State and Arizona State did that pretty early on, but quite a few BE teams did similar things as well). As a result we used Trey in those situations really effectively (including when Nembhard got hurt at the end of the season)

But even with Trey and Nembhard we had to have the 2 of them (and Baylor) learn to play alongside one another, just as I think we are seeing this year with Alexander and Ashworth.

Alexander's increased his assist numbers across the board (per 40 up from 3.2 to 5.2 this year), and on a rate basis 15% to 24.7%, so there's no doubt he's playing a lot of the role of PG (however we define it - I tend to call him a combo guard). Whatever we call him, he's handling the ball a lot as the trigger man in the offense and distributing the ball well in most games

He's also generally been very effective at it this year as well, but with some teams stifling the offense overall (some due to how they played Trey and some due to the rest of the team not adding much either -- e.g., Colorado State, Loyola in particular),
(Barttorvik page is really interesting when you see how good he's been outside of the 3 awful games and 2 relatively poor games this year)
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?y ... =Creighton

I think Trey's obviously made some adjustments based on how teams play him, but I think this last week really shows how valuable a more aggressive and confident Ashworth is to Trey in the backcourt. Not only is Ashworth taking more of the ball handling away (against some teams, that is a lot of work and Trey was likely hard pressed to keep up that effort full time), but it also means he gets more space to operate

I don't think the offense is where it can be just yet, but it looks to me like it's starting to click more and more. Hope to keep it up tonight

[go_jays]

"I think Trey's obviously made some adjustments based on how teams play him, but I think this last week really shows how valuable a more aggressive and confident Ashworth is to Trey in the backcourt. Not only is Ashworth taking more of the ball handling away (against some teams, that is a lot of work and Trey was likely hard pressed to keep up that effort full time), but it also means he gets more space to operate"

Exactly, and that's because hunting for shots and directing the hunt are 2 completely different concepts. And understanding your role and what the differences are in those roles is crucial.