Providence Game Thread II

[Chicagojayfan]

Ah ok, so our differences in this argument is because at first I said two "really good" shooting performances, and then later said "good" offensive performances and left out the really.

You got me.

Our offensive performance last night is within the average band of what I expect from this offense - particularly now that Ashworth is playing like he is

In fact, if he hadn't had the foul trouble last night I think we would have definitely done better

[GoJays2020]

Should bench Miller and start Green, at least for the Georgetown game. Miller has had 0 points last two games and Green weights 40 lbs more.

[Outlaw_Wales]

Huge shout out to Jaden Green. He was really good on both ends in the very limited time he got. His reward of course was to be benched and never see the floor again, but that’s Mac and the bench.

I won’t be surprised to see him and Ditzler both go somewhere else and have massive seasons and careers elsewhere. Even when you show that you deserve to be on the floor, we keep you on the bench and then get sad that everybody has no legs and comes up short repeatedly down the stretch in games.

Just curious as to what you've seen from Dotzler to make you think he deserves to be on the floor right now?

Nothing. But they burned his redshirt this year only to never give him any opportunity to play. Would you be shocked if that didn’t sit well?

Green is a great example. We haven’t had a chance to see him all year really to demonstrate whether he should be playing more. Last night we did and he was very good. And got benched for it.

These guys want to play. When they are never given any opportunity, it should not be shocking if they go elsewhere and get a shot. All I’m saying.

[section221jay]

Huge shout out to Jaden Green. He was really good on both ends in the very limited time he got. His reward of course was to be benched and never see the floor again, but that’s Mac and the bench.

I won’t be surprised to see him and Ditzler both go somewhere else and have massive seasons and careers elsewhere. Even when you show that you deserve to be on the floor, we keep you on the bench and then get sad that everybody has no legs and comes up short repeatedly down the stretch in games.

Just curious as to what you've seen from Dotzler to make you think he deserves to be on the floor right now?

Nothing. But they burned his redshirt this year only to never give him any opportunity to play. Would you be shocked if that didn’t sit well?

Green is a great example. We haven’t had a chance to see him all year really to demonstrate whether he should be playing more. Last night we did and he was very good. And got benched for it.

These guys want to play. When they are never given any opportunity, it should not be shocking if they go elsewhere and get a shot. All I’m saying.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't told playing time would be limited and he chose not to redshirt on his own. They don't just GIVE playing time.

[#RollJays]

Huge shout out to Jaden Green. He was really good on both ends in the very limited time he got. His reward of course was to be benched and never see the floor again, but that’s Mac and the bench.

I won’t be surprised to see him and Ditzler both go somewhere else and have massive seasons and careers elsewhere. Even when you show that you deserve to be on the floor, we keep you on the bench and then get sad that everybody has no legs and comes up short repeatedly down the stretch in games.

Just curious as to what you've seen from Dotzler to make you think he deserves to be on the floor right now?

Nothing. But they burned his redshirt this year only to never give him any opportunity to play. Would you be shocked if that didn’t sit well?

Green is a great example. We haven’t had a chance to see him all year really to demonstrate whether he should be playing more. Last night we did and he was very good. And got benched for it.

These guys want to play. When they are never given any opportunity, it should not be shocking if they go elsewhere and get a shot. All I’m saying.

Don't see Dotzler getting more extended run next year. Mac plays his starters 32mpg or more. Ashworth's role isn't going to decrease next year and don't see them playing together. Dotzler could even end up redshirting next year. It would be really disappointing if we can't find a 10-15 ppg 1 year stop gap at the 2 spot to replace the hole left by Trey.

Right now, it is hard to justify Green not getting more playing time with Miller struggling shooting and not bringing much to the table in other areas. We could be a dominant rebounding team with someone at the 4 who could get 7-8 rebounds per game. Might be time for a little extended run.

[Jaysfan100]

I think we need to remember in pre season green hot hurt and that seemed to really bum Mac out. We are seeing him finally provide so maybe it means he’s is 100%. On the offensive side pre yesterday he kinda looked timid . Yesterday he looked aggressive. I wonder if he is starting to get healthy.

Also I wouldn’t mind having him start a game. Mason has vanished which is to bad as he was having a great first half of the season. Plus I think we are at the point where Issac T future will be at the 5. Green on the other hand though he can play the 5 looks like he could be a much better 4 with his athleticism and size. We know he can shoot the 3 he just needs to try . Think he’s only taken 1 all year.

[cujaysfan]

I think Mason is playing for the same reason FF does and likely won't change who starts.

They both know where to be on defense. Or at least moreso than who the other options are.

But, green playing is a very positive development.

[HandDownManDown]

Everyone here is grasping for straws, and doesn’t fully understand where things are now.

We will be straight up purchasing 1-2 starters a year. This year it was Ashworth, Baylor before him, Hawkins before that. When you factor in guys like Johnson and McAndrew - expected to be impact players from the moment they get here, a la Art/Trey/Nembhard - we don’t need future starters the way we used to. In fact it would be better to hire specialists who realize their role than wanna be feature players who can’t feature.

Whether or not Green stays isn’t as large a matter as what minutes he can give NOW. And that’s in question. Making a few hustle plays doesn’t make you playable, just ask Fred.

The evidence we have is that Green is in for a spot weld to hold things together for a quick minute or two. I’ll leave it to Mac to know whether or not he’s capable of more - and with our situation of our bench being what it is and the 4 spot being what that is, it’s damning that he can’t get in.

[HandDownManDown]

Also, everyone talking about our lack of bench should look straight at the Lawson whiff as the primary culprit. Everyone except Kalk could be playing less minutes if he could give us 20 (Baylor sliding over to the 4 if needed) but since he can’t we are in a huge bind.

That’s where the problem lies, because that roster spot was where some of the depth optimism was originating from. It also goes to show how narrow the margin is between surviving and thriving.

[Chicagojayfan]

Everyone here is grasping for straws, and doesn’t fully understand where things are now.

We will be straight up purchasing 1-2 starters a year. This year it was Ashworth, Baylor before him, Hawkins before that. When you factor in guys like Johnson and McAndrew - expected to be impact players from the moment they get here, a la Art/Trey/Nembhard - we don’t need future starters the way we used to. In fact it would be better to hire specialists who realize their role than wanna be feature players who can’t feature.

Whether or not Green stays isn’t as large a matter as what minutes he can give NOW. And that’s in question. Making a few hustle plays doesn’t make you playable, just ask Fred.

The evidence we have is that Green is in for a spot weld to hold things together for a quick minute or two. I’ll leave it to Mac to know whether or not he’s capable of more - and with our situation of our bench being what it is and the 4 spot being what that is, it’s damning that he can’t get in.

If we are looking to buy 2 starters (or more) a year, then we might be in trouble, but I can see us looking for one person as immediate fit for some need every year. This year was a bit of an exception in that we had 3 legitimate NBA prospects possibly coming back and needed to fill holes around them, but even then we only bought a PG

Anyway, I do think there is still a need to develop players and get them to learn to play. Remember Kalkbrenner didn't start as a Freshman, and played 13-14 mpg or so. Trey only started 13 games his freshman year, so there's still a need for development to take place, and in particular there are guys who are good athletes and have skills, but need physical development

Outside of the past few games the 4 spot has been a solid contributor this year, and I think they'll get back into the flow here as well

A quick comparison:
Kaluma last year:
30 mpg, 11.8 ppg, 6 rebounds a game, 1.6 assists, Usage 23.2%
Miller + Traudt this year:
34.7mpg, 9.5 ppg, 5.7 rebounds a game, 1 assist, Usage 12.5

and that's including the downturn these past few games. They are being productive with having almost no plays run for them and deferring to every other guy on the court for offense


But with all of that said, I'm hoping that we work Green in more and play Traudt more as the backup 5 also. Dropping Bello's minutes to around 20mpg helps us in a number of ways and think he's more effective like that