The next President

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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:44 pm

This whole memo thing is fundamentally unserious. It is a four page set of bullet points. I've gotten office memos regarding policies about refrigerator space that were more serious than this.

Secondly, it is a transparent attack on the FBI and DOJ by Trump and his cronies. Why would Trump release classified info that the FBI objected too? Because it covers his own ass. Pardon my french, but this is just badly done propaganda.

I don't even know how to react to this stuff anymore. Are there any grownups left in government with some credibility that can make this crazy ride stop?
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Re: The next President

Postby KenoshaJay » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:38 pm

bird_call wrote:This whole memo thing is fundamentally unserious. It is a four page set of bullet points. I've gotten office memos regarding policies about refrigerator space that were more serious than this.

Secondly, it is a transparent attack on the FBI and DOJ by Trump and his cronies. Why would Trump release classified info that the FBI objected too? Because it covers his own ass. Pardon my french, but this is just badly done propaganda.

I don't even know how to react to this stuff anymore. Are there any grownups left in government with some credibility that can make this crazy ride stop?


How about a few examples of well done propaganda?
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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:18 pm

KenoshaJay wrote:
How about a few examples of well done propaganda?


KenoshaJay, you seem like a smart guy. But that is a perfect example of a response that ignores the substance of a post.

Also,do you remember this gem of a quote you made from 18 months ago?

KenoshaJay wrote:
Trump has said that he will release his tax return in the near term.


Trump is a liar.
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Re: The next President

Postby Waylon Van Smack » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:49 pm

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/02/i ... bret-baier
Dems.... "Nothing to see here, Trump is mean"
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Re: The next President

Postby KenoshaJay » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:59 pm

bird_call wrote:
KenoshaJay wrote:
How about a few examples of well done propaganda?


KenoshaJay, you seem like a smart guy. But that is a perfect example of a response that ignores the substance of a post.

Also,do you remember this gem of a quote you made from 18 months ago?

KenoshaJay wrote:
Trump has said that he will release his tax return in the near term.


Trump is a liar.


Name calling ends conversations. Trump saying that he was going to release his tax returns is an example of propaganda? It goes both ways. Glad that I am not a politician. Don't even like propaganda when it relates to business. It goes both ways.
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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:45 pm

KenoshaJay, I didn't call you a name, unless you consider "smart guy" as sarcasm, which it wasn't intended as. Unlike Waylon, you do post thoughtful information some of the time, although not this time.

Re: propaganda - here's where you are being a "smart-ass". I ask you in all seriousness, is there any way in which a discussion of good vs. bad propaganda will shed light on the PotUS and his cronies actively attacking our intelligence agencies in a nakedly political way? The Nunes memo is something a high schooler reading the newspapers could have put together. It isn't serious because it omits significant portions of the story that have been reported, such as the fact that Page had been under FISA surveillance in 2013.

Re: Trump being a liar. He said he would release his taxes. He didn't do it. Thus, he lied. There are so many examples of this, but I liked that one because you apparently believed it at the time. Now it seems relevant because of the money laundering allegations that are popping up about Manafort, Kushner, and Trump.
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Re: The next President

Postby KenoshaJay » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:03 pm

Not trying to be a smart ass. Trump plays the propaganda game as good as anyone. Call him a liar if you like. Said that he was going to release his tax returns - decided not to release them.

Hard to have a discussion between liberals and conservatives. Propaganda comes from both sides. Politics is the ultimate blood sport.
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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:03 pm

Kenosha,

If someone says they are going to do something, then doesn't decide to do it because of "reasons" that may include hiding unsavory things (e.g., how wealthy he actually is, russian money laundering, or tax evasion), that's basically the definition of self-interested lying. Maybe those weren't his reasons, but since every other President has done this since Ford, one must wonder why he went back on his word and lied.

It is hard to have a discussion between conservatives and liberals. We don't inhabit the same world of information anymore. What I'm seeing in my news sources is obviously very different than yours and they don't have enough common facts for us to find a starting point.

Politically of course, Libs are furious that Republican politicians are aiding and abetting a terrible President in attacking our Intelligence agencies. Around this time when Obama was President, conservatives were furious about the impending passage of ObamaCare and extending health care to additional Americans.

Guess we just have different priorities about how a country should function and what the responsibility a government has to its people.
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Re: The next President

Postby KenoshaJay » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:33 pm

bird_call wrote:Kenosha,

If someone says they are going to do something, then doesn't decide to do it because of "reasons" that may include hiding unsavory things (e.g., how wealthy he actually is, russian money laundering, or tax evasion), that's basically the definition of self-interested lying. Maybe those weren't his reasons, but since every other President has done this since Ford, one must wonder why he went back on his word and lied.

It is hard to have a discussion between conservatives and liberals. We don't inhabit the same world of information anymore. What I'm seeing in my news sources is obviously very different than yours and they don't have enough common facts for us to find a starting point.

Politically of course, Libs are furious that Republican politicians are aiding and abetting a terrible President in attacking our Intelligence agencies. Around this time when Obama was President, conservatives were furious about the impending passage of ObamaCare and extending health care to additional Americans.

Guess we just have different priorities about how a country should function and what the responsibility a government has to its people.


Good post.

My perspective is biased by my background, education, small business experience and faith.
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Re: The next President

Postby LynchMob » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:07 am

Trey Gowdy (R-SC), who just suddenly did a complete 180 and retired from Congress after weeks of talking about continuing his fight, has been consistently supporting Mueller and the Russia investigation in the past few days. Recall, he is literally the only Republican who saw the FISA application; he and Adam Schiff (D-CA) were the two chosen by the parties to review the documents in a clean room at the Department of Justice. This is what he said today:

Pressing the point, CBS News White House and senior foreign affairs correspondent Margaret Brennan asked: "The memo has no impact on the Russia probe?"

"Not to me, it doesn't — and I was pretty integrally involved in the drafting of it," Gowdy, a former federal prosecutor, said. "There is a Russia investigation without a dossier. So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there's going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier."


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