The next President

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Re: The next President

Postby cufan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:43 pm

vivid_dude wrote:
Easypaddy wrote:Was there an option for those of us who don't want to keep fighting endless wars in the Middle East?


Rand Paul.


Definitely more of a dove than a hawk, but far from a non-interventionist.
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Re: The next President

Postby Alphawalt » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:47 pm

I find it funny when someone who doesn't agree with liberal lunacy is automatically labeled a "Trumper". It just brings home the point the Dems who thought Clinton would win are the more delusional ones. Consider the following from a CNN story today that shows even Dems don't believe they are on the right path:


Asked whether the Democratic Party is in touch with the concerns of the average person, just 28% of respondents said it is -- as opposed to 67% who said Democrats are out of touch. Those numbers are worse than the "in touch/out of touch" numbers for either the Republican Party or Trump in that same poll.

More amazing to me is that only 52% of self-identified Democrats said their party was in touch with peoples' concerns, while 44% said it was out of touch. (Also of concern for Democrats: Fewer than 1 in 5 independents -- 18% -- said the Democratic Party was in touch with the average person.)

Those numbers -- particularly among Democrats -- are striking. Party leaders in Washington have positioned the party as the voice of the little guy since the earliest days of the Trump presidency: Their side would be the one to stand up for the disenfranchised people in the country whose lives Trump neither cared about nor even thought much about.

As evidence of the organic groundswell behind this idea, Democrats touted the successes of things like Sen. Elizabeth Warren's "nevertheless she persisted" moment with Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on the Senate floor. Twelve million people watched Warren reading a letter from Coretta Scott King on Facebook Live! Republicans were on the ropes, courtesy of a populist punch-out!

The problem with that conclusion is exposed in the numbers above. Yes, there are lots and lots of Democrats who support Warren, buy "nevertheless, she persisted" T-shirts and wear them proudly. But that doesn't mean the party can automatically be assumed to be the voice of "the people."

What it also means is that Trump's election isn't a panacea for the Democratic Party. While it's easier to attribute the party's 2016 loss to stated (and unstated) racism and sexism in the country -- and there was some of that! -- that analysis absolves Democrats of the sort of internal review the party badly needs.

Consider this: A billionaire businessman raised in New York City was able to successfully cast his Democratic opponent as the candidate of the elites in this country. How? Because there was already a preconceived notion within the populace that Democrats were coastal snobs -- shopping at Whole Foods, sending their kids to private school and viewing the rest of the country with utter disdain. That sentiment still very much exists in the country.
It's possible that even if Democrats do nothing between now and the 2018 election, they will make major gains in Congress -- and could well end up in the House majority in early 2019.
But that won't solve the existential problem facing the party which, simply put, is this: Most people don't think Democrats "get" them.


I just want someone who runs this country right, without wasting money, having balls to stand up to others, and truly cares about everyone, not just those who agree with either liberal or right wing agenda. From where I look both parties are the problem and we simply need to get rid of the extreme elements of both parties, whether the name is Obama or Trump.
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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:01 am

Alphawalt wrote:But that won't solve the existential problem facing the party which, simply put, is this: Most people don't think Democrats "get" them.

I just want someone who runs this country right, without wasting money, having balls to stand up to others, and truly cares about everyone, not just those who agree with either liberal or right wing agenda. From where I look both parties are the problem and we simply need to get rid of the extreme elements of both parties, whether the name is Obama or Trump.


1. 2.86 million more people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the 2016 election. http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

2. Trump is not exactly your typical Republican. He veers heavily authoritarian and nationalist/protectionist/xenophobic, which is an outlier. But he is straight middle Republican regarding taxes, environment, and social issues. And his populism and desire for infrastructure spending is actually quite leftist for a Republican. And calling Obama extreme is really strange. He may have desired to be more left, but he was only able to actually pass policy that was center-left as President.

The problem causing a lot of the extreme elements is the polarization of political districts via gerrymandering and self-segregation that results in completely safe districts. When districts are challenge proof for moderate politicians, there is no incentive to cooperate with the other side at the national level.
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Re: The next President

Postby KenoshaJay » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:27 pm

bird_call wrote:

1. 2.86 million more people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the 2016 election. http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174



Take California out of the equation and then run the numbers?
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Re: The next President

Postby jln » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:35 pm

KenoshaJay wrote:
bird_call wrote:

1. 2.86 million more people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the 2016 election. http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174



Take California out of the equation and then run the numbers?


That's fair, but on the other hand if you remove all the parts of the country where Trump won then Hillary's popular vote advantage is even greater.
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Re: The next President

Postby Outlaw_Wales » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:36 pm

KenoshaJay wrote:
bird_call wrote:

1. 2.86 million more people voted for Democrats than Republicans in the 2016 election. http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174



Take California out of the equation and then run the numbers?


... speaking of gerrymandering to get the results you want ...
User avatar
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Re: The next President

Postby bird_call » Wed May 10, 2017 10:33 am

bird_call wrote:
cufan wrote:
bird_call wrote:So first the National Security Advisor perjures himself, now we find the Attorney General did the same thing. What did they both lie about?

Talks with Russia.


To be fair, Flynn did not perjure himself. Sessions may have as he testified before Congress.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/16/the-michael-flynn-situation-just-went-from-bad-to-worse-for-flynn-and-the-white-house/

There are reports Flynn perjured himself to the FBI. He did lie to the press and the Vice President about contacts with the Russians.

Either way, that dossier on Trump the Russians are blackmailing him with must be really something.


Russia. Russia. Russia.
Trump fires the FBI director for investigating Russian ties with his campaign managers. This is a constitutional crisis. I hope there are enough Republican senators who value the Republic more than their party and are willing to stand up to this clear abuse of power.
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Re: The next President

Postby Jaysker12 » Wed May 10, 2017 11:40 pm

i hope they can get to the bottom of whatever occurred between Comey and Trump


For the record, though, the Dem party's leadership are the ones responsible for Trump and all of his mess
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Re: The next President

Postby OmahaBen » Thu May 11, 2017 10:38 am

Oh horse hockey. It's the fault of the 60,000,000 or so people who voted for a narcissistic, bullshitting, con-artist because reasons; 96% of whom would still vote for him today.
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Re: The next President

Postby Jaynut » Thu May 11, 2017 10:50 am

Jaysker12 wrote:For the record, though, the Dem party's leadership are the ones responsible for Trump and all of his mess

Classic. From the party that preaches "personal responsibility" the fault of the president they elected goes to those who opposed him.

:roll:
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