Global Warming

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Re: Global Warming

Postby CU Final Four » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:16 pm

Too funny. Brett Stephens starts at the NYT and writes about global warming in moderate terms and appeals for civility. The Left calls for his firing and burning at the stake. See below.

" “Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts,” [Stephens wrote]. “None of this is to deny climate change or the possible severity of its consequences. But ordinary citizens also have a right to be skeptical of an overweening scientism. They know — as all environmentalists should — that history is littered with the human wreckage of scientific errors married to political power.”

But social media users didn’t care, with some — including several scientists — going so far as to order a subscription boycott of the Times on Friday.

“Each and every one of us should fully boycott the NY Times — don’t link to them, don’t click on their links. Their actions are inexcusable,” wrote one Twitter user. “You cannot be an ostensible paper-of-record and allow a science denier to spread propaganda.”

Adriana Heguy, a genomics scientist and professor of pathology at NYU, urged her colleagues to scrap their subscriptions, as well.

“Composing my letter to the editor today and canceling @nytimes,” she tweeted. “‘Balance’ means a VALID alternative opinion, not pseudoscience. I’m so sad.” "

Successful hire by the NYT. Firestorm generated on day one.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby bird_call » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:16 pm

mel ott wrote:The only way that solar and other green technology is comparable pricing to fossil fuels is by government subsidies! It's been that way from the start. Al Gore and buddies are just in it for the money. They want to be the brokerage houses for payments and credits ( when you don't have low enough ratings on your own energy production- then you can buy credits to offset your problem). Just like the markets- the middle man makes the money and it's basically a redistribution of wealth from one country to another. Funny that back in 2008 attending a Florida natural gas conference these traders were all hoping that either Obama or McCain would buy into this and they would make a ton of money. Funny, when asked what the cost for this "clean air'' program would cost consumers- the answer was they hadn't really looked at that! Lastly, some countries didn't have to participate- so two of the biggest polluters,India and China, didn't have to pay anything. Wealth redistribution.

Oh and thanks BB- screw Vivid! That feels better. Actually, I think he has mellowed out just a bit.


Mel Ott,

From wiki:
The levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) is a measure of a power source which attempts to compare different methods of electricity generation on a consistent basis. It is an economic assessment of the average total cost to build and operate a power-generating asset over its lifetime divided by the total energy output of the asset over that lifetime. The LCOE can also be regarded as the minimum cost at which electricity must be sold in order to break-even over the lifetime of the project.


The Energy Information Administration says Wind and Solar PV is cheaper than coal. There are already more jobs in wind and solar energy than coal. Solar PV was 39% of all power added to the grid in 2016, followed by natural gas (29%) and wind (26%).

Iowa is a leader in wind power and produces more wind power per acre than any other state. Are you just jealous of the neighbors?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Durango Jay » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:39 pm

Bird call, what you speak of here is called facts. Obviously, this a religious topic, where you need belief, not facts. Facts simply get in the way of the truth, which politicians on the dole from big oil, obviously know much more about than scientists. We need so many fewer facts, that we've removed climate data from the EPA website. Blessed are the politician.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby mel ott » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:32 pm

do you all want to address the key part of my post where they want to have utilities ( US power companies) pay fees for being out of compliance of approved levels while other companies don't have to participate? Input? And who devised these levels of approved levels?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby CU Final Four » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:17 pm

From The Claremont Institute,

"Julian Simon, the economist who was legendarily skeptical about environmental doom, once posed a question at an environmental forum: “How many people here believe that the earth is increasingly polluted and that our natural resources are being exhausted?” Almost every hand shot up. He then said, “Is there any evidence that could dissuade you?” There was no response, so he asked again, “Is there any evidence I could give you—anything at all—that would lead you to reconsider these assumptions?” Again, no response. Simon concluded, “Well, excuse me. I’m not dressed for church.”

This story gets at the crux of today’s environmental disputes. Karl Popper argued that a scientific assertion’s defining feature is that it can be falsified empirically. Thus, the religious fervor animating the environmental movement—and especially its most sacred cause, to halt and reverse global warming—must be considered apart from the research of environmental scientists, especially since many scientists also worship at the temple."
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Durango Jay » Mon May 01, 2017 7:18 am

Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Jaysker12 » Mon May 01, 2017 3:48 pm

CU Final Four wrote:From The Claremont Institute,

"Julian Simon, the economist who was legendarily skeptical about environmental doom, once posed a question at an environmental forum: “How many people here believe that the earth is increasingly polluted and that our natural resources are being exhausted?” Almost every hand shot up. He then said, “Is there any evidence that could dissuade you?” There was no response, so he asked again, “Is there any evidence I could give you—anything at all—that would lead you to reconsider these assumptions?” Again, no response. Simon concluded, “Well, excuse me. I’m not dressed for church.”

This story gets at the crux of today’s environmental disputes. Karl Popper argued that a scientific assertion’s defining feature is that it can be falsified empirically. Thus, the religious fervor animating the environmental movement—and especially its most sacred cause, to halt and reverse global warming—must be considered apart from the research of environmental scientists, especially since many scientists also worship at the temple."


Simon wasn't a climate skeptic, he was just an eternal optimist. But he was not a scientist and made some outrageous claims about ddt, lead, agent orange, about never running out of any type of natural resource.

“Well, excuse me. I’m not dressed for church.”


You could argue that he was a fanatic as well.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby bird_call » Mon May 01, 2017 5:39 pm

mel ott wrote:do you all want to address the key part of my post where they want to have utilities ( US power companies) pay fees for being out of compliance of approved levels while other companies don't have to participate? Input? And who devised these levels of approved levels?


Sure, if you can actually describe what it is you are arguing. I don't have any idea what regulatory framework you are describing based on either of your last two posts. You seemed to be asserting that all fossil fuels were cheaper than renewables. That's demonstrably false.

I have no idea what "approved levels" of US power companies you are talking about. Is this pollution or a mix of power sources or what?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby bird_call » Mon May 01, 2017 6:16 pm

CU Final Four wrote:"This story gets at the crux of today’s environmental disputes. Karl Popper argued that a scientific assertion’s defining feature is that it can be falsified empirically. Thus, the religious fervor animating the environmental movement—and especially its most sacred cause, to halt and reverse global warming—must be considered apart from the research of environmental scientists, especially since many scientists also worship at the temple."


As mentioned on page 46 of this monster thread, there are whole bunch of empirically testable claims for human caused global warming. Here they are again for the interested reader:
tropospheric temperatures are warming
ocean temperatures are warming
deep ocean temperatures are warming
glaciers are retreating, especially in the tropics and subtropics
temperatures in the high latitudes are warming faster than those at the poles
there is less snow cover over the northern hemisphere in early spring (i.e., shorter winters)
nighttime temperatures are warming faster than daytime temperatures
the stratosphere is cooling
the arctic ice sheet is shrinking

About half of these hypotheses occur only if warming is caused by greenhouse gases. Models that don't explain those facts well are discarded (e.g., changes in solar intensity or underwater volcanoes or changes in the earth's axial rotation or whatever).


We know the greenhouse gases are coming from humans (emissions measurements, isotopic fingerprint studies, ice core records, mass-balance calculations for fossil fuels, etc.). And we've known the basic physics of the greenhouse effect for over 130 years. And we've spent the last 40 years compiling a massive paleoclimate record and measuring temperature globally via surface and satellite measurements. So we are able to compare all these observations with various possible explanations for temperature changes and see what fits. And we're very confident that human emissions of greenhouse gases is increasing the temperature of this planet and will continue to do so.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby CU Final Four » Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 pm

Important new paper on the Tropical Hot Spot Theory at the link. One of the peer reviewers got a degree from UNL so note that.

https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com ... 1717-1.pdf
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